Gauges on the Gen3

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:40 pm
ChrisCurrent wrote:Time has passed and many have gained experience with the Gen 3.

Personally, I prefer the analog gauges (oil, water, and tach) but maybe that is old think. Obviously, additional sensors can be installed to provide the analog output to gauges. Or, is there some other approach or adapter kit for digital to analog?

Or, is CDS in my future?

Would appreciate hearing how others have approached this.

Chris


I've got a year to mull it over, but I'm in the same boat. The new engine/ECU should give us options. The long and short of my research shows that for big bucks, we can have an electronic dash with integrated data; or for far less, an analog dash with carry-over, stand alone-data. The new piece of data I really want to capture is throttle position. But I'm not going to blow the budget just to pick up that data.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:03 pm
At present I have the old analog gauges installed and it didn't cost a nickle but I always meant it as a short term fix to get to next spring. I drilled and taped a port in the oil cooler fitting and drilled and taped into the water plug on the bottom of the water tank. If you use the tank make sure you have a bonding jumper from the tank to ground. In retrospect I would drill and tap closer to the water pump outlet on the motor because of the importance of seeing the temp rise fast in case of a loss of the water pump belt. If that belt never comes off like the old alternator belt had a tendency to do, it's probably not a big deal but if it comes off all bets are off if you will see the temp rise fast enough on a gauge with out flashing lights for low voltage and high temp.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:22 pm
Competition Data Systems has a package deal for a Gen3 compatible kit. Cant say enough about the Copilot Dash. Makes life so easy with idiot lights, and predictive lap times.

http://competitiondata.com/downloads/sa ... _flyer.pdf
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:05 pm
I am with you Chris about gauges (we are so used to looking at them) but the technology is passing us by if we continue that way. From what I am hearing and reading about the Gen3, just having analog gauges, especially water temp., would be useless in the event that the belt to the water pump (and alternator) was lost. With no gauge on voltage on most of our dashes now and a water temp gauge, a lost belt on the Gen 3 could spell disaster. I'm not an alarmist but me thinks we need more alarms on our dash for this new engine.
Mark Fick
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:26 pm
My 2 cents regarding gauges. I do have a data acquisition unit but want analog reliability. I used the SCCA-supplied Gauge Kit and think of it as an interim solution to eventually tig welding an npt bung onto the large water outlet for water temp analog gauge. Pretty much same strategy with oil pressure. I attached a water pressure sensor on the -6 hose to the waste reservoir, it turns on a bright LED on the dash.

A few months ago, I bought a $40 Bluetooth diagnostic unit that plugs into the OBDII plug of my daily driver. Depending on the unit, it will display up to 20 or so engine parameters to an Android or iOS phone or tablet. Since this is a production engine there should be an easy connector. Can someone provide this?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:32 pm
The value of the integrated dash is the ability to set alarms and lights on critical items like oil pressure and water temperature (I find too many drivers who have things go really bad because they just didn't see the gauge hitting 250 degrees.) With shift lights you can stay focused on the track and not peering a a gauge. Finally, capturing the data can help diagnose issues before they become critical (voltage loss, fuel pressure drop). Having driven a car with analog gauges I can say that once you go digital it's tough to go back to analog as it draws too much attention away from driving.

Although this is a production engine, it is using a proprietary ECU, so ODBII won't help, however CAN-Bus output is well understood. At the low end for data collection only with analog gauges, you can start at $699 for an AIM SoloDL which can collect all the ECU data, and provide lap timing, predictive timing, MPH, plus download of GPS and ECU data for analysis.

Any other data acquisition system that had a CAN-Bus connection "should" be able to work with the Gen 3. That precludes some of the lower end GPS-based systems, but most of the higher end systems should work.
Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:52 pm
First of all thanks so much for the fine job on the manual. Things are progressing well to this point.

I do have some questions relating to the following:

A. Gauge Kit:

I have purchased this option but it came with no diagram or instructions. The manual does cover this, but I have two questions.

1. Will the location on top of the oil cooler provide an accurate reading compared to the block and can we use the current sending unit?

2. The instructions for the Water temperature is to install the tee fitting in the by-pass water bung on the radiator hose adapter. I take it that this is across from the temp sensor side of the radiator hose adopter near the thermostat. Is this correct and can we use the current sensor? My guess is that we can.

3. Does anyone have pictures of their installations?

B. Oil cooler fan wiring:

1. I take it the black wire is for the ground. Any recommendations to where to ground it?

C. Coolant recovery tank:

1. The manual indicates that the hose must be sealed to the tank in order to avoid engine damage.
Because we do at times have a need to unscrew the lid to put coolant in it how do we seal the hose to the lid or how important is the seal itself? My guess is they are talking about the hose to the coolant tank and not the coolant recovery tank, but it is listed under the coolant recovery tank instructions and I just want to make sure.

D. Clutch bulk head hole under the plate.

1. I grew up in a gas station with my dad insisting on double nutting everything and checking everything twice. Our cars have more zip ties per square foot than any other because he also told me not leave anything rubbing against wires, hoses etc. I am concerned about the opening caused by this change. Now I know that there are other types of cars that have similar openings, but this is one thing that I will lose sleep over. Has anyone come up with an acceptable way of covering this, which would meet enterprise standards?

Thanks once again to all involved in this process! Pat
Last edited by goolsbey on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:19 pm
Pat - I have two answers first and last. I can't remember what it looks like for the middle questions.
A 1- The pressure there might be a few pounds difference but not enough to worry about.
B. & C. I used the old sensors. Be sure you have a good ground for anything not bonded to the frame.
D 1. I am in the process of making a second, slotted light duty aluminum cover to fit under the mounting bracket to cover the hole in the transmission top. There might be a small opening around the 2 hoses but not much.
The rest I would have to look at when I get home.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:24 pm
I took the rubber boot from trans and turned it around and cut out the center piece to fit around hoses. Put in place then put lines on fittings to bracket and bolted it to trans. Pushed down a little to sit on boot. Looked ok to me. Better then open hole and rubber boot was there already, not a add on.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:28 pm
Thanks Bill! Let me know what you find. By the way what clearance do you have with the intake manifold to the back frame? I have heard that can be a tight fit if the right and left motor mounts are not quite in the proper place. An engine does move when operating, so this is a problem we want to avoid. I am not sure what the proper clearance is, so if someone knows please share it with us.

Thanks again!
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