Won't start when cold, crank errors

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:56 pm
We have been out for two race weekends so far this year and both weekends we had the same problem. When starting up in the morning, the car won't start without a jumper battery or battery charger connected. I am seeing crank errors when I hook up the PE3 software.

I have a new battery cable, new ground cables and a new starter power cable. New battery even and it did it again today. I see the voltage starts at 12.7 volts, but drops to 12.4 when I turn on the ecu. Then drops to low 10's when I hit the starter.

Any ideas what might be wrong?

Tony
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:19 pm
Relay maybe?
Dave Harriman
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 7:33 pm
Does the starter turn over engine really fast? Ign. off just master on. Was thinking if it was slow to turn over could be a starter. drawing to much power cold?

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:31 am
The starter seems to turn over ok. It only seems to do this the very first time I start up each day or if the car sits for several hours.

I have no idea, but it is frustrating to have to hook up a charger every time we go to start.

Tony
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:13 am
Shot in the dark, but I spent a day working on a starting problem that was finally resolved by replacing the fuel pump relay (would run fine statically, but not when the starter was running). Simple test would be to swap the Main and Fuel relays to see if it makes any difference in your starting problem. These are the two relays mounted with the button used to run the fuel pump manually, likely mounted somewhere near the ECU.
Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:51 pm
Fuel pressure check in order. Place a gauge on fuel rail. turn on master and then Ign. gauge should go to 45 PSI. Then fuel relay will kick off and the gauge will drop down to about 30-25 PSI in about a few seconds. Then it should hold that for 5-10 mins or so. leave gauge on it and try starting it like you do when it dont start a double check fuel. This should take fuel out if it does that correctly.

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035
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:46 pm
Found the problem thanks to Mike Davies. It was a damaged crank sensor. Something must have gotten into the bell housing and then kicked up by the flywheel. The crank sensor was damaged, but mostly intact so that's why it would run with the extra battery. Thanks to the diagnostics on the ECU, Mike helped isolate the problem down to the cranks sensor signal.

Thanks everyone. Now I just need to get the bodywork repaired from an encounter with a tire wall and we will be ready to run up at Brainerd next weekend.

Tony

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:30 pm
Ynot3007 wrote:Found the problem thanks to Mike Davies. It was a damaged crank sensor. Something must have gotten into the bell housing and then kicked up by the flywheel. The crank sensor was damaged, but mostly intact so that's why it would run with the extra battery. Thanks to the diagnostics on the ECU, Mike helped isolate the problem down to the cranks sensor signal.

Thanks everyone. Now I just need to get the bodywork repaired from an encounter with a tire wall and we will be ready to run up at Brainerd next weekend.

Tony


I am having similar problem. Want to go to my local Ford Dealer and pick up a new crank sensor and might as well get a spare fuel relay at the same time.

Can anyone give me the Ford Part # of both? It would also be nice to know when searching for Ford Parts the year and car model that these engines are made for.

Pat
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:38 pm
Fuel pump/master relays are available from Enterprise (same part used on FE - WM901006). It's pretty inexpensive at ~ $6.00 on the last price list I have. I sourced some from WayTek at a lower price a while back, but not really worth the trouble unless you have a minimum order of $35 for free shipping (they cost about $4.00 each at the time). Micro Relay M3 12V SPST 30A Resistor V23374A1601X003
Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:25 pm
Thanks Bob! Its not so much a matter of price but convenience and time for me. My CSR is 400 miles away and my Ford Dealer is 3 miles. Didn't know the relay wasn't a Ford part, but should have realized that, considering the electronics is not Ford. Wanted to try and fix the problem sooner than later.

I believe our engines were From a Fiesta 1.6 L (Sigma engine). The last time they mfg that engine for that car I believe was in 2011 or 2012. The ford part for the 2012 looks like Ford part #6C315 for the crank position sensor. Can anyone confirm that and I will pick one up at my Ford dealer. My guess is that sensor might very well be the same for a 2011 and earlier.

Pat
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