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SRF and E30 in same run group in San Francisco Region

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SteveLevin SteveLevin's Profile Ready to Write a Book Posts: 72 Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:42 am	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:49 pm Todd SRF73 wrote:Just heard today that the E30 guys were not happy at losing other cars to race with as well. Oy. Can't really say anything else about that. Steve
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:09 am

breton wrote:I swear there's something in the coffee when people get on the boards of SCCA that makes every decision seem logical. Fields shrinking? Raise the price! The mathematical disparity between classes is unbalanced? Throw them in with those renegade SRFs! We own our own track? Let's build windmills! Not enough people at the Runoffs? Invite everyone! Too many three day weekends? Make them all two day weekends with half the track time at a higher price! National events? We don't need no stinkin' Nationals! Divisional event coordination? What's a Division? Pro racing? Over "my" dead body... (end of rant - for now)

So Bob, I know you volunteer at the school, but consider running for the SFR Board next time or even the Area Director job next time it's up. Give you a chance to help steer a volunteer organization. All the free Kool Aid you can drink, the unvarnished gratitude of those you serve, and feeling like you accomplished something when (if????) you can help accelerate the SCCA glacial pace even 1mm extra a year!

Race scheduling and grouping is an art, not a science. No matter how good the schedule, no matter how good the class groupings somebody or some group is always pissed off. It's worse when you are trying to bring in or help build up a new class, you look for a good fit to help it grow what looks good on paper often does not work out on the track.

Somewhere between a benevolent dictator with a pure for profit business orientation and a member driven club is the answer, but we aren't there yet :mrgreen:

Todd Butler
OR/SFR Region

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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:33 am

GregCirillo wrote:
Jerry A. wrote:Having a run group all to ourselves is definitely the way to go. However, with race entries (including our own SRF group) diminishing, I understand that the region has to make difficult choices. Maybe they could have made a better choice of who would run with us, but if the number of SRF group entries continue to decline every year we should not expect to run alone. The best way to get our own run group back, is to have more SRF entries.

If an event is planned for a given number of run groups, with SRF being their own run group, when SRF turnout is less than expected, why is it inevitable that SRF gets tossed into another run group? Is it just about creating an opportunity for a different run group to get broken up?

In Mid-Atlantic regional races, they do a great job of keeping SRFs alone on track, even when turnout is weak. It probably sucks for the spectators! (10 seconds of mayhem, 80 seconds of silence, 10 seconds of mayhem...)

The big problem (I think) is that the race groupings are setup in the supplemental regs, which are approved early for the whole season. It takes some extra "admin" to change them for a specific event, I believe.
So they have to base the groupings on what is predicted will happen for the whole year.
The bad thing is group participation changes as the year goes on, SRF usually has among the most consistent entry counts...

Dave Harriman
"It looks crazy, I understand. But, we only live once and I am going to give it a good try." - Alex Zanardi

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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:27 pm

I get the E30 thing as we're obviously trying to poach the class from NASA (ala RX7 and SM). Last time I looked, E30 was nearly a 30 car field in NASA. So why come to SCCA? Let's compare:
NASA - March 10-11 2-day event - E30&SM - 2 races - Infineon - $329
SCCA - July 6-8 - 3-day event -E30&SRF - 2 races - Infineon - $535
25 E30 raced at the last Infineon event last year.
30 SRF raced at the last Infineon event last year.
So, if the region ls "successful", we'd have a 55 car field at Infineon and the region would make an extra $13,375. <sarcasm on>Of course that assumes that 30 SRFs and 25 E30s would delight in sharing the track together, well worth the extra $206/E30 drivers for the privilege </sarcasm off>

Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region

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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:30 am

That's an even better post than usual for you, Bob.

The region stands to gain the most entries at Laguna, since NASA doesn't run there.

I think the SCCA should be more worried about losing cars to NASA (which has happened with the Miatas). They run a lot at Infineon, we don't. Also SCCA eliminated the Thunderhill October weekend, and I believe NASA is running at Infineon a couple times in October and November.

Dave

Dave Harriman
"It looks crazy, I understand. But, we only live once and I am going to give it a good try." - Alex Zanardi

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dave dave's Profile dave's Website Needs a Life!!! Posts: 1200 Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:38 am Location: Sunnyvale, CA Chassis: 068 415 Facebook Page: http://facebook.com/HSERacing	Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:38 am NASA also has a pretty good West Coast Endurance Series that a lot of SCCA racers seem interested in. Dave Harriman "It looks crazy, I understand. But, we only live once and I am going to give it a good try." - Alex Zanardi
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breton breton's Profile Needs a Life!!! Posts: 767 Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:21 am Chassis: 595	Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:46 am And for reasonable track time at Infineon, you can run an SRF in the NASA TT class (TTC as I recall.) Very low-key and friendly event, not too many cars; good for practice and training (4 sessions/day as I recall). Can't figure out how they can manage to stay afloat, though, at the prices they charge... Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region
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John Walsh John Walsh's Profile Ready to Write a Book Posts: 68 Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:10 pm Chassis: 432	Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:31 pm Bob Devol wrote:Yeah, yeah...I know about their inherent inability to retain their bodily fluids and have been caught out by that more than once.
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:37 pm

Just to be fair as far as far as cost / value, at their "normal" events, they can have as few as three race groups, so the likelihood of getting are really screwed up mix of cars (by SCCA standards) is pretty good.
So a 10-20 minute warmup, 20 minute qualifying, and 30 minute race would be a typical one day event.
Also they have lots of 20 minute sessions with no schedule gap, so the chance of having some time lost is increased.
OTOH you can also run your car in the HPDE / TT groups to get extra track time of give friends a chance to drive the car / get their license.

Dave Harriman
"It looks crazy, I understand. But, we only live once and I am going to give it a good try." - Alex Zanardi

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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:10 pm

Just to make this official, and responding to some private emails, E30s will run in Group 5 this year.

Group 5 is projected to be crowded - they are not happy - and SRF numbers are likely to to be down again from last year (just based on my asking around) but hopefully the '12 venues and dates may help offset that a little. Having low attendance will mean alternate race group combinations are going to remain on the table; remember to consider sound windows when concocting your inevitable home brew combinations of classes that are a feature of a public forum.

tony

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