New.....looking for budget

All things specracer!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:10 am
Now for a less flippant reply... My husband went to SM after a few years in SRF. For some reason he enjoys driving that car more, it's as simple as that. But he reports that to be truly competitive, some SM drivers spend an awful lot of money building their cars. The rules change from year to year, especially about tires. Also, the SMs simply aren't as spec as SRFs and probably can't be. On the other hand, the SM community in our region is pretty great and we get huge fields. On the other other hand, racing with them is like being in a pinball machine: you're always bouncing off of something. True story: after I raced an SM last year one of the guys says to me "hey great race! but why didn't you bump me?! I was giving you the signal." It's a very different culture.

After racing both I find it harder to driver the SRF at the limit than the SM, but I enjoy the challenge. I like the way the SRF handles and there's a certain bravado associated with racing in an open cockpit car.

Definitely rent both before you decide to go with the SRF. :) If you're in the southeast look up Tom Fowler of OPM for Miata rentals.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:05 am
adam81 wrote:I appreciate all the replies. So far they confirm my initial beliefs of the types of people racing these things and the level playing field brought on by the rulebook and sealed parts. I plan on renting a couple different cars from different classes after I have narrowed it down to 2 or 3. My plan is to do the comp school at Roebling in Feb '13. So I need to have my short list and cars rented by then. I plan on contacting a CSR, but I would like to be educated so I don't waste their time by not knowing what questions to ask. Knowledge is power. I still need to know costs to run this class.... This could become a great thread for newbies like myself looking to join. I looked in the "gettign started" section and searched prior to posting and there isn't really any good information out there.

enzo wrote:Adam are you the same Adam81 of Boss Mustang fame?


Yep that's me


I wouldn't wait to contract the CSR, they deal with new people all the time (some think it's part of their job ;) ).
Dave Harriman
"It looks crazy, I understand. But, we only live once and I am going to give it a good try." - Alex Zanardi

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:30 am
Adam:
I am going to try to answer all your questions, others can correct me as necessary:
Budget

1. Tires- How many heat cycles or races do they last for?
there is a debate on the subject...most feel that they are dead after 8 cycles or so, some people go fast on 12+ cycle tires. No doubt they are fastest in the first session
2. Brakes- Is there a spec pad and rotor that is used? Yes, both
rotors- how many hours/races do they last for?
Probably 20+, track dependent. they are cheap Renault rotors, like $15 at times if you catch a deal at Advance or other a/p stores.
pads- how many hours/races do they last for?
again, track dependent, probably 5+ races, spec part bought from CSR
other brake parts?
caliper rebuild kits, i think they are $10 or less each, best to rebuild every pad change to minimize drag, but not entirely necessary
3. Engine hours/races before rebuild-
Don't zing it, and it lasts for a long, long time. 70-100 hours or something like that. They don't die, they just pick up some leakdown and lose a few HP
4. Trans hours/races before rebuild-
Even longer. My prior car was at the end of logbook 3 and was on transmission 3; Stripling has an (I think) 8 year old one in his car, totally dependent on your driving. Powershifts are frowned upon!
5. Shocks hours/races before rebuild-
Maybe a couple years and to the dyno, sometimes they need a rebuild at that point
6. Other suspension pieces life-
not exactly suspension, but wheel bearings need care (repack, find a Nieterriter tool, allows you to pull them apart on the car and regrease every 4-5 races). Otherwise plan on at least rear bearings annually or so, rears go faster than fronts due to engine heat. Periodically you'll find a loose rod end to replace, the upper ball joints are every year or two (cheap moog parts), occassional tie rod ends (cheap moog parts). The big bushings on the UCA get worn and need replaced after maybe 5 years, let the CSR do it, you really have to kind of align bore/hone them to do them right.
7. Bodywork and chassis repair-
Don't run into anything and there is none of that!

8. Fluid changes- what and how often?
every three races i change oil, trans annually, brake bleeds every couple races.
8. Entry Fees-
look at entry info on the web, $300-550/ weekend

9. SCCA Fees-
look for info on license fee on SCCA site, etc.
10. Any other charges or fees not associated with the actual race car-
nothing i can think of
11. What am I missing
you have to move it, so you need a trailer and tow vehicle or you can have a CSR do it. You'll need tools and some basic mech skills, a few specialized tools (alignment bars, stands, quick jack). Doesn't take much to learn how to maintain a SRF. You can spend a lot or a little, in the early days we slept in the trailer (some in tents since it was open trailers); the crowd runs the gamut from that level of $$ to those that arrive and drive with a CSR and fly their planes in!
the other piece in the puzzle is data ack, but that is a complete topic of it's own.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:33 am
steve kramer wrote:7. Bodywork and chassis repair-
Don't run into anything and there is none of that!

Which, in the real world, narrows it down to somewhere between zero and a million...no...a BILLION dollars!!

H.(no dents...only dust)B.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:53 am
Adam,

I have been racing SRF for 12 years. I haul my own car and do my own work/repairs. I have found, on the average, each weekend costs me between $1500 to $1800 including entry fees, towing cost, tires, brakes, regular maintenance items, engine rebuilds and tranny rebuilds. Cheap compared to many race vehicles.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:05 am
Adam,

You could get nearly as many answers to some of your questions as people you ask. I'll give you mine. I run 12-14 races a season, a mix of single and double race weekends, and a handful of practice days. It is more than most, I suspect, but less than some. Last year I ran mostly pro races and nationals. This year, the pro series is gone, so I'll run mostly nationals. I try to be competitive.

1. Tires- How many heat cycles or races do they last for?

I don't often race on tires with more than 6 heat cycles but some folks do, and do well. If you swap them around on the wheels (inside to outside), you can probably run them for at last 15 sessions before you run out of rubber. I tend not to run tires with more than 10 or 11 heat cycles.

2. Brakes- Is there a spec pad and rotor that is used?
rotors- how many hours/races do they last for?
pads- how many hours/races do they last for?
other brake parts?

Pads are spec Hawk. Discs are iron and whatever fits a Renault Alliance. Brembos were common, now unavailable, and didn't last more than a season. I have Centrix now, I think that is what they are called, and they seem like they'll last at least two full seasons, if not longer. I don't recall what I paid for them but likely less than $40 each. Pads are $150 a set, I use two or two and half sets a season, but I do not get close to wearing them out.

3. Engine hours/races before rebuild-

I have a bad habit of missing shifts especially, as it seems, when I qualify at or near the front of a large field... Missed shifts and consequent floating the valves can shorten the useful life of a motor to a season or two. Driving more competently, keeping fresh oil in it, and not overheating from closing up the nose bump drafting (not that any of us do that), one can get 3-4 years out of a motor or more before they get tired. Complete rebuild for me with shipping is about $4500. If you're closer than the east coast to Denver, you'll pay less.

4. Trans hours/races before rebuild-

Assuming you don't wreck in a way which traumatizes the transmission, they seem to last nearly indefinitely, at least if you use the clutch and know how to shift. I just had a complete rebuild (damage a year and a half after a wreck finally materialized) and spent about $2000.

5. Shocks hours/races before rebuild-

I get my Penskes rebuilt every other year. I'm told that some have it done annually, and some who don't ever think about it. I think last time was probably around $700.

6. Other suspension pieces life-

Well, that depends, doesn't it? Rod ends will wear out but little else wears out in the suspension. Bearings and hubs wear out. I replace the bearings annually, or more often if, for example, I bounce off a wall. Steering racks eventually wear out and need to be rebuilt, but I think mine could have been original (1985) before I had it rebuilt last year. I replace rod ends when they either start to evidence some wear, or every other year or so. Rocker arm bushings will also wear and get a little sloppy after a couple years.


7. Bodywork and chassis repair-

Again, it depends. One of the great things about these cars is that you can tear up a corner or two and make the next session. It is possbile to destroy a frame, but that requires unusual effort. Bodywork is fiberglass, so repairs are within almost anyone's capability. A competent welder can repair almost any frame damage.

8. Fluid changes- what and how often?

I replace oil and filter every other weekend. I run full synthetic in the motor and tranny. I replace tranny fuid a couple times a season. I don't know if it matters.

8. Entry Fees-

Depends. Double national $550-650 where I race. Regionals are less, so are single nats.

9. SCCA Fees-

I forget.

10. Any other charges or fees not associated with the actual race car-

A suitable trailer, something to tow it with, tools, etc. The etc really depends on you. I have a pretty big enclosed trailer, 4 sets of wheels, spare body work, scales, lots of spares and assorted stuff, and two motors and trannys. Other guys have an open trailer, a tool box they can carry with one hand, an extra set of wheels, and a few gas cans. Fuel for your tow vehicle can be significant, especially so this year...


11. What am I missing?

I think most of us run pump gas.

Fuel cells don't last forever. I replaced mine last season. it was dated 1985...

Rubber oil and fuel lines don't last forever either.

Also is this class as "spec" as it is advertised? Is there a large number of racers "walking in the gray areas" (cheating)? Are a lot of guys buying 10 parts to use the one best (motors, ecu's, trans, etc)? Basically is this like spec miata? Or is it truly a class that is run well by good drivers with legal well setup and maintained cars (what spec is meant to be)?


SRF is the most "spec" class there is. Motors are all built by Enterprises, so no sense getting 10. Trannys are rebuilt by the CSR's. Sensors can vary and I have a few of each. Dyno time can be very worthwhile. I'm not aware of cheating but I don't assume it doesn't happen. For what it is worth, however, I don't think the best in the class cheat. The tech at the pro races last year was very well-done, and I don't recall anyone with any issues.

This is not a class, unlike many others, where you can spend yourself to success. If it matters to you, you just have to spend "enough" to run where your talent will take you. There are drivers who do very well, better than me, spending less.

Unless you value high tech, sexy race cars where what you spend dictates much of how well you do, you can't go wrong with SRF.

Michael Hausknecht (NE #60)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:35 pm
Excellent information! Just what I was looking for. Thanks everyone, especially Michael and Steve. This really puts me on track to figuring this stuff out. However if anyone has stuff to add or has experienced different costs than what has been posted, by all means.......
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:14 pm
One thing that wasn't mentioned because you didn't ask a leading question. At the SCCA races, the CSR brings all the spare parts. You don't have to carry a bunch of spares. The CSR also has the expertise to fix the car. I was at race once when 4th gear went out in my transmission, in a qualifying session. The CSR put his guys on the car and they had a new tranny in the car in time for the race. My weekend would have been done early in just about any other class.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:19 pm
Kurt is 100% right on that. There are times that even when you have the parts and knowledge to do the repair, you'd rather not, and over to the CSR it goes.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:15 pm
As others have implied, parts are cheap and most importantly, the car is easy to fix. I took out the left rear of the car on the back straight at Sears Point a few years back in a morning practice session. The CSR had me back on track in about 3 hours so I could get in a couple of more sessions that afternoon.

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