Rich, Jim, thanks so much for the comments-and well thought out suggestions. Fortunately, there is still time (hint: STILL TIME) to work on format, and my immediate worry had been the future of the event itself. Given the numbers for the weekend, a single paired with an enduro, it had been (hint: HAD BEEN) a real concern to me; it's a long standing tradition in the Region. The trick is to make it more exciting, more fun, easier to run to increase draw (duh) so it pencils out, and virtually every one of your suggestions is actively being hashed out-not sure how it will end up but lots of neurons are working overtime-really. I think a lot rides on venue also; its pretty obvious which tracks racers prefer, and will tow for.

tony

BTW, Jim, I heard all about the 25 hr. trophy quality yesterday; pretty funny. ...and Rich, I'd never wreak anyone's car at 6...one of Dave's rentals, maybe, but that was at 2.

Hey, if you can't have quality, at least have quantity!


IMG_0195.JPG by BobSRF, on Flickr

Somehow I think buying an endurance racer and and pit crew is not in the budget of most of the people racing SCCA. IMHO, that is one of the things that discourages the "independents", that do their own work, from participating.

I believe the original concept of the RDC enduro was to have a fun race where people could get that last bit out of their cars before doing their winter service. Since most SCCA races are sprint races, the 5-minute pit windows helped overcome the fact that a lot of cars are not designed to be quickly re-fueled.

Back before there was a separate SRF class, some people used to mess with their cars, which hurt participation, but since they gave us our own class, participation has picked up.

In the old days, there were a lot more IT cars, and cars that weren't the fastest cars around. Also a lot of occasional drivers and drivers who rewarded volunteer pit crews by having them drive.

I think the NASA 25 hour is an example of what they have been trying to avoid. Big-money specialized cars, expensive fuel rigs, lots of fuel spills, red flags, etc.

My feeling is that participation would be better if it were restricted to cars that are actually sprint raceed. I think most of the SRF drivers get a kick out af running with really fast cars like the Spice and the Norma, but a lot of the door-slammers don't like it.

Going back to what Rich said, it seems like a good idea to have a combination of multi-driver and one-drivers races. But for us, anyway, the multi-driver, multi-pit stop races are a big part of the attraction. It emphasizes skills that also pay off in sprint racing.

I think the Booth / Milletti team is a great example., they are both top drivers, but also pay a lot of attention to how their car works and setup, and work together really well, and it has paid off for them. They pretty much set the standard for us...

Not to go trying to tilt windmills, but having the race at Laguna or Infineon is probably worth 10 entries...

To cover your bet whether Dave or my suggestion is better regarding mandatory minimum timed pit stops etc., another way is to have one class that is unlimited similar to ESR in NASA. That way the serious endurance cars that are set up to fuel quickly and run long stints can showcase their abilities in a race just for the overall title. Other classes like SRF that have trouble fueling could stay as before.
Jim

I think looking at the NASA entry count has the answer, there were only 7 entries in the ESR class for both the 25 and the 6 hours. Two were SRFs, two Normas, and a Radical (who "won" the 25 by running 13 hours, with twice the laps we had in the 6). The other two made 15 laps between.

So while it probably wouldn't hurt to drop / change the 5 minute stop rule, suspect that isn't holding back a lot of guys waiting to go out and showcase their abilities by winning races where their car is 10 seconds faster than everybody else...

In the SE Div they have an enduro series. There are several races in the series and it awards points to the team or driver for a year end trophy. Most of these are 90 minute affairs with a mandidatory pit stop. There pit stops require the drive to be out of the car for refueling and has to be three minutes in lenght. Unlike the timed pit stops we do...the crews have to keep track of the time which is your fastest lap time plus 3 minutes. There are severe penalties for being short on the stop. They run their enduros inconjunction with regional races. They are restricted to IT, Prod, GT, and SRF cars. So like Dave said nothing that doesn't run the sprint race. The enduro has a separate run group. Track time is limited to a qualifying session and the 90 minute race. At the end of the season they have a longer enduro event at Sebring. To score points you have to a member of the division.

Also using RaceTrac to broadcast the timing real time...so everyone knows what position they are in throughout the race would be a nice addition. At the 6 hour event in Texas...I really like this feature.

This was the third time I ran in The 25 Hours. We finished 2nd in E3 class in a Miata this time, 3rd last year, 6th in 2009. I was offered a seat in a modified SRF this year, but had already committed to the Miata team. There are a few "SRF specific" things I think about regarding The 25 that are not issues when running against a bunch of other SRF's...

The SRF is low relative to all the other cars. Driver's in taller cars can't see you in the mirrors, especially if an SRF is behind a taller car. That's asking for trouble. While not normally recommended, driving your mirrors is a must in the 25.

Most of the other cars out there outweigh an SRF considerably. Not to mention, their bumpers are almost at SRF driver teeth level. Getting T boned would be bad.

The lights on an SRF would be mounted low, sight distance at night would be limited at best.

An open cockpit at Thill in December does not sound warm and cozy, especially if it rains. In 2010, it rained at night. I was shivering in a tin top, I can't imagine how cold it would have been with the wind and rain blasting me...but those LMP guys do it all the time. Let's hear it for carbon X underwear!!

Wes Wilkerson

You have to mount the SRF lights pretty high, and with our tail-light high up, the visibility of our cars is not that bad unless you tuck right up under someone (no worse than the other ESR class cars, though). We learned a lot after the first year to invest in bright, stable lighting. It's really more about seeing, rather than being seen, since the cars you need to worry about are going by on the front straight with about a 60mph differential and are really about the same speed through the corners.

Fortunately, the front straight is the brightest part of the track and if you hold your line and check before making any sudden moves it cuts down the surprises. When in the other position, pulling to the side into the line of sight helps, especially since the yellow lights we use (both by the slow SRFs and the really fast ESRs) generally signal that a faster car is coming, so most of the mid-speed cars (Miatas) will give you the line and space, and are generally running conservative enough that if you're close you'll easily be able to out-brake them without drama (just make sure that Cup car or ESR isn't trying to do the same to you at the same time!)

The rain is only an issue when you're behind a pace car, since the racing speed is generally sufficient to most of the rain out of the cockpit. Doubling up on the Nomex in the cold weather helps (and have a heated motorhome to warm up/dry out doesn't hurt either).

Tony, I see on the SFRSCCA website that the Illgen 4 hour has been re-scheduled for Laguna Seca instead of THill. Any other changes in format you can share?