Is SRF really safe?

All things specracer!
User avatar
Needs a Life!!!
Needs a Life!!!
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:03 am
Location: Greenwich, Connecticut
Chassis:
860
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:32 pm
TVBX wrote:As that was me being run over by the 944 I would like to say something.

I understand the problem the Stewards have. The man had a valid license and a legal car. he has every right to race. My problem is why with us? Look at the first picture. Look at the difference in size and road height. My nose was loading ramp. Sadly, I was at the end of the ramp.
A split start might have delayed the inevitable. I am willing to race with Miatas. I don't want to but a regional is not always well attended. I would never expect to see this in National event. Whoever let the Porsche in our group made a serious mistake. A similar car showed up for an event at NHIS and was moved to a different group. Anyway I will be writing letters this week. As Jim noted the officiating was a bit off. I was near the back and by the time we were on the hill I was 3rd gear flat with a shift to 4th just to catch the green. I fully expected a wave off. As for the incident, I have replayed my video several times. I need to find an SRF so I can adjust for eye height vs camera height. The Go Pro picks up Trevor's spin but it would have been out of my line of sight. I might have had a second shot later but I was focused on setting the Miata up for a pass on 4.It was pretty much all Miata before my eyes. It is possible that had my eyes been focused a bit higher I might have seen something. The poor Porsche driver Anthony was near tears as he thought he had killed me. No one needs to suffer this. My estimate is that I was 1/4-1/2 inch away from being in a casket or a wheelchair. Anyway, yes Spec Racer is safe and not allowing STU in the group will make it even safer. Anyone need a slightly used helmet-comes with a can of rubber remover.


Tom, my concern is that even a Miata would have had the same result. Fact is, our cars are designed and built to withstand an impact with only one type of car -- another SRF.
User avatar
Still Learning to Type
Still Learning to Type
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:25 am
Location: Unadilla, NY 13849
Chassis:
009
Facebook Page:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/bradford.w.brooks
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:05 pm
As the current owner of no less than 3 various Porsche 944s including an ITS, I can also add that a couple divisions moved years ago to take 944s out of ITS as the result of the 944s coming together with the more popular and lighter and quicker ITS Mazdas usually constituted the Mazda retiring on the spot and the 944 soldiering on. You can bet this picture set got my attention this morning. I will be writing my letter this evening and getting it sent out tomorrow. I am signed up to instruct and race in Glen Region's Last Chance in a couple weeks and it is a similar mixed run group with "door-slammers/tin-tops/bang-boxes" (whatever you choose to term them). My wife was peering over my shoulder as I started through the pictures and could hear my audible gasps. She has NEW fears about my addiction to racing and she has every right to feel that way.

Convincing her that "I will be OK" is a vain attempt to mask my own fears at this point. I trust my driving skills and abilities, but that isn't good enough when we have to share the track with cars that double our size and weights.

When i did a school in '09 in NH, we were grouped with FF and FV (and presumably F500 had there been any), and I found it to be a good group and match. While any mixed group is not perfect when racing multiple classes, that seemed better and more fair than the current mix we are seeing. Let SPU, STU, HP, and FP run with the IT classes where they belong! Split starts where applicable.

I do NOT want to have a more serious accident get the attention needed to make something change. Not for me or ANY of us. Tom, glad you are OK and have a good sense of what happened.
You lose 100% of the races you don't start.
User avatar
Forum Hermit
Forum Hermit
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:35 am
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:36 pm
This will be controversial but I'm going to say it.
You do *NOT* want a GCR mandate that SRF have it's own run group.
This *WILL* result in restricted Regionals or Nationals with SRF excluded from racing where there are not enough SRFs to justify a standalone run group.

Personally I believe that if we have mixed SRF and anything groups, it should be grouped with other formula cars and sports racers. Yes they are faster than us (exception being FVs), but they are lighter weight and usually have no trouble seeing SRFs.

Note also that you have the ability to petition the Stewards and file a formal request for action requesting a schedule change and move SRF group out of what ever mixed prod group it is in. Work with your region and officials to do so. If you don't like the answer appeal it! If you can't convince your officials to provide the appropriate class groupings, then a) get youself elected so you can make up approipriate schedules, or b) find races where the class groupings are acceptable!

Finally, everybody has to make decisions about what kinds of tracks they will race on, under what conditions and with what other kinds of cars and or drivers.
Todd Butler
OR/SFR Region
User avatar
Needs a Life!!!
Needs a Life!!!
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:03 am
Location: Greenwich, Connecticut
Chassis:
860
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:32 pm
Todd: I appreciate your viewpoint on this but, as far as I'm concerned, if there aren't enough SRFs to constitute a run group then maybe we don't deserve to run at all in that event. And foisting us off on the open wheel cars is just putting them in the same position we are now -- the bug to the heavier cars' windshields. Not a safe solution.

And, frankly, I don't find having to negotiate a political phalanx replete with regional politics, RFAs and appeals at almost every event just to get us into a safer grouping to be even the least bit fun. It's hard enough as it just to get a simple split start called for us.

We've just had a driver needlessly suffer multiple injuries and another come within inches of very serious injury -- both of them my friends. Something must be done.

One solution is to separate us into our own run group. It's not ideal by any means, but it is the undeniably the safest at this point. Does anybody have a better idea? Honestly, if anyone does, let's hear it -- please.

Needs a Life!!!
Needs a Life!!!
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:12 pm
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:01 am
Some advice when dealing with the comp board. Don't and I mean don't ever give up. Last year I, (along with many others), expressed my concern in March with having us race with S2000. I specifically mentioned several situations that could occur in the kink because of this grouping. To some degree they listened and gave us our own race, but we still had to qualify with them. One of my concerns came to be in a qualifying session with them in the kink. After that I went back to the board and their response was "that everyone would like to have their own qualifying and race sessions but scheduling would not allow it".

I went back to them and told them that scheduling should never be a priority over safety. I also told them that I was not going to let this go away and I did not accept their answer. I kept at it and finally they said they would take this into consideration for the 2012 runoffs.

It should not take a major injury or death for changes to be implemented. Several of us for example have asked why after so many serious injuries in the kink hasn't something been done to protect the drivers from impact. I have been attending racing events there for well over 40 years and after seeing some horrific crashes and yes deaths, have yet to see any major safety improvements in the kink.
User avatar
Needs a Life!!!
Needs a Life!!!
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:26 am
Location: Rockville MD
Chassis:
298
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:33 am
Food for thought: As they develop the new engine, a move to 125-135 HP would help SRF run with the sports racers, and possibly mitigate these conflicts.

Ready to Write a Book
Ready to Write a Book
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:36 am
Location: Cabin John, MD
Chassis:
390
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:11 pm
What Todd said.

Below, excerpts from a letter I sent to the CRB:

"...As an administrator I've come to appreciate the complexities of putting on an event that is safe and fun for everyone, especially when it comes to deciding which classes will run together in which groups, and I understand the variables involved (schedule limitations, track length and configuration, speed and cornering abilities, etc.).

As a racer I accept whatever decision has been made as one of the conditions of my race. And honestly, I find mixed-class racing fun, because there's another set of variables to deal with. It makes the race more interesting. But as an SRF driver, I am always concerned about collisions involving an open-cockpit, lightweight, fiberglass-bodied car and a closed-cockpit metal-bodied car that weighs a lot more. But cars can always be fixed (or replaced); the real concern is driver safety.

Obviously this is not as much of a problem when classes aren't mixed. But since it isn't always possible to place SRFs
in a group by themselves, I am writing to ask the Club Racing Board to consider my proposal for the next best thing: make split starts standard operating procedure any time SRFs are grouped with other classes.

I realize that there may be circumstances where split starts are inadvisable, and that's why I specifically don't want a rule change in the GCR. Officials need to have the flexibility to weigh all the variables to come up with the best solution. But I would like to see some sort of advisory or directive on the issue, since (in my experience) many stewards have refused to even consider a split start. If split starts were SOP (with exceptions allowed), then maybe those stewards wouldn't dismiss
the idea out of hand.

The goal with this procedure would be to have SRFs away from other classes for at least the first few corners on the first lap of the race (when collisions are most likely to happen). There are several ways to accomplish this. If an SRF is on pole, then start all SRFs by themselves in the first segment. If the pole-sitting car is one that can out-accelerate an SRF (an SPU, for example), then both those classes could be in the first segment, unless turn one is very close to start/finish (Nelson Ledges or the Lightning circuit at NJMP, for example). In that case, or in the case where there are several different classes at the front of the grid, SRFs could be placed in the second segment, by themselves. But with any of these scenarios, SRFs are not likely to be sharing track space with the larger/heavier cars until at least a few laps in - when collisions are less likely because the cars have spread out.

As I understand it, GCR 6.5.2 as currently written would allow for any of these scenarios; no changes to the GCR should
be needed.

Having raced many times in mixed-class races (split start and not), and having driven pace car for many split starts, I realize that it's not the ideal solution. I've heard several stewards express concerns about various safety issues, or that drivers won't be able to handle the split start. But that's easy to deal with: impound all cars after qualifying and call a drivers' meeting. The steward(s) could then go into all the detail they need to.

I've thought about this issue for a long time, and after looking at it from all the different perspectives I've described, I honestly believe that it is one easy step we can take toward making club racing safer for everyone..."
Elizabeth Miller
fast cars, slow food
WDCR Asst. Race Chair, Competition

Needs a Life!!!
Needs a Life!!!
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:32 pm
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:29 pm
Bob D, did Joe get hurt at the Glen?

New Member
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:28 pm
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:01 am
Hello. I’m the driver of the STU Porsche. Someone sent me the link to this discussion and I’d like to put my two cents. First let me say that I thankful that Tom was unhurt after all this. I am fine as well. Looking at the hit from my in-car video it is just as scary as in the pictures. And to be clear, I am just as unhappy as you about having to share the track with cars from the opposite spectrum of height and weight.

To set the record straight, the incident looked like it stated when Tom ran into the back of an STL Miata, buried the nose his SRF into the right rear of the Miata and spun around in front of me. See in-car video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBvnuiKlzCg
Had this been an incident between two SRF’s, I think it probably would not have resulted in the spin. Instead we came within inches of serious injuries or worse, for both Tom and me, and two heavily damaged race cars.

After the incident I spoke with several SCCA workers who expressed frustration and bewilderment with the composition of this race group. I was told that safety concerns had been raised on several occasions but no obviously no action was taken. They urged me to get with the other drivers and let the region’s powers that be know that this cannot be repeated. Letters to the competition board as others suggested can help but as you know, SCCA is not known for quick decisions. After this very close call I think that I will not be taking more chances. I refuse to participate in a race where I have to share the track with SRF’s or other prototypes. I hope that SRF drivers, who really have more at stake, band together and do the same before it is too late.

New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:36 pm
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:31 am
Thanks Anthony. You said it all. Glad we can both shake hands in the future.
PreviousNext

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests


cron