Lower Heim(sp) Joint Question

Technical and Repair Discussions
Cheap and Weak or Strong and expensive

Poll ended at Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:43 am

Go with the cheap and Weak - Save money for crash damage and beer.
1
13%
Spend the bucks up front and get the Strong and expensive.
7
88%
 
Total votes : 8


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:43 am
I have two different opinions on the lower Rod end that attaches to the spindle.
One opinion is that you should use a cheap rod end that will break in a crash - this will supposedly save the rest of the suspension from more damage.
The other opinion is that you want the strongest rod end you can get for the same reason.
What do you all think?
I am doing a frame up rebuild and installing the Gen 3 at the same time.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:23 pm
Hey Bob,
I chose not to vote for one simple reason... I'm convinced that doing both is the way to go. I use the lighter duty ones (they have a channel around the ball) in the front and the heavier ones in the back.
I can explain my reasoning if you like, but I've always done it that way and it has saved me not only money but also allowed me to finish and/or win races that I wouldn't have been able to complete otherwise.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:36 pm
Denny,
How about that explanation, I would like to know your thoughts. And as an added inducement I will put up some pictures of the completed frame restoration and rebuilding of your old car. The fame is all painted with new aluminum sitting in my shop . Parts are being painted and rebuilt, Car will be complete and race ready in January, or maybe Feburary , but definitely by March or April.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:58 pm
Bob K wrote:Denny,
How about that explanation, .

Bob,
Look at his avatar. He makes sure he only gets hit in the front, whatever it takes.

H.(slow guys get hit in the back)B.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:27 pm
Bob,
Ideally you want the heims to not be a spot that will break easily and therefore you want the heavy duty ones, but I find that in the front that's less than optimal.
My reasoning is that most wheel to wheel contact happens up front and it happens at times when the wheel is turned which puts a non-perpendicular load on the heim potentially. That rarely happens in the rear and if it does, you probably want the heim to be the thing that breaks if anything is going to.

In the front, wheel to wheel contact puts a hard load on that heim and the softer heim will actually bend rather than breaking. When that happens, you'll get a change in toe and the steering wheel will be off of center but the car is still drivable.
I submit this video for your consideration (this was a combination of a bent LF heim from impact plus a twisted lower steering shaft).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRfc45pWVXk
A heavy duty heim may well have broken in that case (or transferred all of the instantaneous load to some other weaker part like the rocker) where the lighter duty heim bent but stayed solid. As such, I was able to finish (and win) the race rather than having to limp (or be towed) back to the pits ending my day.

Just my .02...
Denny
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:14 pm
Well, it all makes sense until one of the "lighter duty" (cheaper) rod ends breaks all on its own in the front. Which is what happened to me last year at The Glen Major. Luckily the resulting spin started at corner entry, Turn Two, and I stopped just at the barrier or it would have been much worse.

My vote: go with the stronger rod ends all the way around.

In this case, "lighter duty" (low price) doesn't necessarily mean that it bends rather than breaks. Most AN spec hardware will bend before breaking, and the more expensive rod ends tend to be AN-spec.

So, what Denny is saying is true to the extent of using a rod end with a lower yield point. And that means going with the more expensive, AN-spec rod end because it is higher quality and it will tend to yield rather than break. Also, these rod ends tend to undergo more stringent QC.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:12 pm
There is a lot of stuff about rod ends on the Pegasus web site.
Another factor to consider beyond the strength of the shank is the way the ball is mounted, the heavier duty have more bearing surface and the cheap ones don't have PTFE / teflon linings. So the good ones will work right for much longer.
Dave Harriman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:25 am
Yep, "softer" doesn't mean "cheaper" :).
I got a batch of them a while back (actually from someone who used to be in the class) that had no linings and they felt like I could snap them with pliers. Needless to say, they never went within 10 feet of the car.
When I need one, I get it from my CSR and I put the "softer" ones up front as described and the "stiffer" ones in the rear. The only real difference I can see is that there is a channel or a valley around the bearing on the ones I run up front.
I have had one front break once before, but it took a hard shot in a pre-curb hole so I chalked it up to that. It's possible that one of the more stout ones might not have broken in that instance.
Denny
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