"Outlaw SPEC" My GEN 1 is in SEDiv SPU!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:08 pm
Greetings - I hope i can get some help here with my race car. Have met a great bunch of folks in and around SRF and this forum seems to be no exception.

I have a GEN 1 Spec Racer – yes, it really is a Renault. Unfortunately, it is now looking for an engine. It is/was an SRR. At this juncture, I'm currently classed and my Logbook reflects SPU. (Which I am fine with, and a possible option for other Gen 2s after 2018 I suppose.) That is why the thread title - "Outlaw SPEC"

I discovered a problem in cylinders 3 & 4, during test day at Sebring last weekend – wound up burning oil and a leak down test, wet plugs, etc confirm those as the problem. Most likely a ring and a tear down will be required at a minimum. Now, I ask for some help to form an approach to my engine options. The obvious being a tear down and rebuild, but out of the box-thinking may be useful.

With the GEN2 SRF phasing out by 2018, I have seen a number of these engines available, but as I understand – not so many have transmissions included. I suppose one option is to up-convert the car to “Gen 3-LITE” with an engine/tranny combination and get ~25 more horsepower, and 100 lbs less weight than the GEN 2. If I wanted to move back into SPEC, the conversion costs really escalate. I am very much interested in “cost containment,” and this platform in the SPU class seems viable in that regard.

As a SPU, 25 horsepower doesn't sound like a great improvement to me. So, why don't I spend my engine repair/swap budget to put in a better (bigger) engine? Something with 60-100 more horsepower sounds a lot better than 25 HP (thinking Honda B, K, Toyota ZZ series, or maybe even some of the GM FWD engines). The costs of these engines seems on par with the Ford engines too. [I want to remain in SPU – so no Turbo or Superchargers – thank you!]

So, I have a few questions:
1. Has anybody has gone down this path, or may have considered such an idea at some point? Daydream - the "What Ifs?" Did you do it – or pass on to the next Gen? Pitfalls you experienced/avoided/thought about?
2. Anyone have a Gen 1 to Gen 2 conversion manual that I could borrow/copy the appropriate sections?
3. How accurate are the frame diagrams I have seen? (Were these from the Mumm Brothers source? They are labeled as “AutoStuff, Inc”, and drawn by BRM, and dated 7/10/98)
4. Any idea if the engine stand diagram is accurate for the 1.9L Ford Escort engine (also from the same source)?
5. As a fall back, does anybody have a Spare Renault engine sitting about at a really good price – that ran when removed? Doesn’t need to be sealed for me! I have all the “bits” to add on - and even a spare 5 speed. I could do a "plug and play" and work the other engine as time permits.

PM me here or respond in thread please! Meanwhile, I go start pulling the current engine. Thanks to all in advance.

Cheers – Jim
When I used to fly, I was called an AVIATOR.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:59 pm
Jim - This is just a guess but I have to believe for $1000 or $2000 at the most you could probably rebuild the Renault. Anything else is going to cost you way more to convert considering you probably need a new transmission not to mention it's easier staying Renault. Just remember if you put something in different, you will need a transmission, new ECU and the wiring to go with it and a whole lot more which could be problematic. You can get a lot of 1.9 parts at fire sale prices but you also have to purchase a few new too make the conversion to what in a few years will be obsolete again. Its a lot of work.
Everything on the Mumm Brothers sight is the gospel and accurate. I made the stand and it works.
Last edited by Bill Parenteau on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:05 pm
Probably you could be really ambitious and buy all the parts from someone's left over G2>G3 conversion. Wiring harness, etc. included. And then find a transmission...and in the end have a G2 car complete, possibly spec./sealed. And that can probably be done for about $4K or less in parts.
otherwise, look at Fenske's Toyota conversion as run at Aspen. Not sure where the info is these days, but google is your friend here.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:19 pm
You're right! Google is our friend, Steve. Here are some shots of the parts used in the Fenske conversion. http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/Curre ... &k=BrNgSvJ

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:58 pm
I'm gonna' do some heavy review of the Fenske Conversion! Thanks for that link!

Bill, Yep I certainly understand the HP/$ conversion hassles - not to mention any chassis mods required too. Certainly ups the $ investment - so the HP has got to be up for the effort too.

If anyone has a ford transmission lying about at a sweet price would make the "unsealed" Gen 2 a player (or a copy-cat Gen 3-Lite aka non-SPEC).

Got my juices flowing - while disassembling the Renault just now.

Thanks guys!

Cheers - Jim
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Now, I race cars. So, am I called a PAVIATOR?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:54 pm
phantomjock wrote:I'm gonna' do some heavy review of the Fenske Conversion! Thanks for that link!

Bill, Yep I certainly understand the HP/$ conversion hassles - not to mention any chassis mods required too. Certainly ups the $ investment - so the HP has got to be up for the effort too.

If anyone has a ford transmission lying about at a sweet price would make the "unsealed" Gen 2 a player (or a copy-cat Gen 3-Lite aka non-SPEC).

Got my juices flowing - while disassembling the Renault just now.

Thanks guys!

Cheers - Jim


If you're willing to go with the relatively tall fifth gear in the stock Ford Escort transmission, and of course unsealed, then it's off to the junkyard! I think it's from the Ford Escort, 1983-1985. If I'm wrong on those model years, someone please correct.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:52 pm
Bob Devol wrote:If you're willing to go with the relatively tall fifth gear in the stock Ford Escort transmission, and of course unsealed, then it's off to the junkyard! I think it's from the Ford Escort, 1983-1985. If I'm wrong on those model years, someone please correct.


But I though our motor was some Austrailian headed oddball? Which is part of the supply problem.

If I was running outlaw, I would be looking for a B18. Numbers look good for NASA ST3 specs without getting into really high power where I would worry about keeping hubs, bearings, & brakes from overstressing, yet it should easily out run even talented SRF3 drivers.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:59 pm
BFun wrote:
But I though our motor was some Austrailian headed oddball? Which is part of the supply problem.


Aye Mate - Copy that. Guess you can call me "Ned" (Kelly) - keeping with your OZ reference.

BFun wrote:If I was running outlaw, I would be looking for a B18. Numbers look good for NASA ST3 specs without getting into really high power where I would worry about keeping hubs, bearings, & brakes from overstressing, yet it should easily out run even talented SRF3 drivers.


Like that vector - I've been looking at the H22A --maybe too greedy. The B18 has some nice specs. And, I like the thought about minimizing stress. Out run Gen3? -- Ohh, that could be fun!!! Maybe even a "Spec" Miata or 2?

UPDATE: The Renault is OUT of the chassis - and all the motor mounts. Now, I need to source a replacement!

Keep the ideas coming!

Cheers - Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:06 am
BFun wrote:
Bob Devol wrote:If you're willing to go with the relatively tall fifth gear in the stock Ford Escort transmission, and of course unsealed, then it's off to the junkyard! I think it's from the Ford Escort, 1983-1985. If I'm wrong on those model years, someone please correct.


But I though our motor was some Austrailian headed oddball? Which is part of the supply problem.

If I was running outlaw, I would be looking for a B18. Numbers look good for NASA ST3 specs without getting into really high power where I would worry about keeping hubs, bearings, & brakes from overstressing, yet it should easily out run even talented SRF3 drivers.



Ummm...I was referring to the transmission, not the engine.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:21 pm
Tranny is out of Ford Escort '93-95. Make sure it's a 1.9 engine version. Have fun!
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