Wilwood Brakes and Penske Shocks

Technical and Repair Discussions

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:13 pm
Hi all,
I'm starting to bring my Gen 2 car back from a 15 year sleep and have some questions, specifically about the brakes and shocks. I see in the October, 2019 edition of the GCR a reference to Wilwood brakes and Penske shocks. Now the Penske shocks have been around for a long time but the Wilwood brakes are new to me.

On page 588 the GCR states (my color added): "Brakes: Hawk Blue 9012 pads P/N 801993 must be used. Wilwood vented rotor P/N 800065 shall be used as delivered with no machining of any kind. Minimum thickness 13.25mm (0.522”). Rubber caliper bushings may be replaced with bronze bushings P/N 1196185 or P/N 1196185. Original caliper pistons may be replaced with vented caliper piston P/N 1196184; no other modification allowed.

Wilwood caliper with bracket universal fit P/N 800038 may be used as delivered with no modification
of any kind
. Wilwood knock back spring (2.63 lbs.) P/N 800045 may be used as delivered with no
modification of any kind; maximum of one spring per caliper.

From the two paragraphs it seems that the Wilwood vented rotor is mandated while the calipers are optional. So my first question is: Is my interpretation correct, that is is the Wilwood vented rotor required or can we still run the original Renault rotors?

And if the vented rotors do happen to be optional does anyone know the weight difference between the Renault rotor and the Wilwood rotor?


And now a similar question WRT the Penske shocks: When I last raced the Konis were still legal and the Penskes were optional. However, the GCR page 589 states: "Shock Absorbers: Penske shock P/N 280396 with spec valving shall be used as a sealed assembly with no modification of any kind. If shock seals are damaged in any way, the shock must be sent to an authorized SCCA Enterprises service center for verification and resealing at the competitor’s cost.

So are the Koni shocks no longer legal?

Thanks in advance,
Ray Russell SRF461
Houston, TX
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:08 am
Not wanting to spend your $$ for you, but wouldn't this also be a good time to replace the Upper Control Arms with the newer tubular versions? Also -aren't there new uprights and bearings available? http://www.accelracetek.com has a pretty complete parts listing - but I don't see the uprights/bearing assembly referred to a while back.

Sounds like a fun restore/upgrade project. Will you post pics/notes anywhere along the way?

Cheers - Jim
When I used to fly, I was called an AVIATOR.
Now, I race cars. So, am I called a PAVIATOR?

Novice Typer
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:58 am
phantomjock wrote:Not wanting to spend your $$ for you, but wouldn't this also be a good time to replace the Upper Control Arms with the newer tubular versions? Also -aren't there new uprights and bearings available? http://www.accelracetek.com has a pretty complete parts listing - but I don't see the uprights/bearing assembly referred to a while back.

Sounds like a fun restore/upgrade project. Will you post pics/notes anywhere along the way?

Cheers - Jim


That's another new one for me, I had no idea that tubular UCAs even existed--guess I need to read the entire GCR WRT the SRFs! Right now I'm trying to figure out why my clutch and rear brakes are frozen. I assume that it is the cast iron pieces-the calipers and the slave cylinder. Maybe I'll start a new thread on what I'm finding and doing--for my own record even if no one else (present company excluded of course!) cares...

But to keep this particular reply on topic is it safe to assume that you are running Wilwood rotors and Penske shocks?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:22 pm
Wilwood Vented Rotors are Required.

Wilwood Calipers are optional. You can still run the old Renault calipers they are supposed to be the same performance. Feedback form other drivers is they reduce brake drag but can have a slightly different pedal feel. They were developed due to the pending shortage in serviceable Renault calipers.

You can run the Konis but the Penske are a superior damper and can be adjusted for rebound on the car without disassembly.

Note the Gen2 is a regional only class and so the rules will depend on your Region's supplemental regulations.
James Chartres
SRF #82 - Chassis #501
http://www.kangamotorsports.com

Novice Typer
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:39 pm
Zealous wrote:Wilwood Vented Rotors are Required.

Wilwood Calipers are optional. You can still run the old Renault calipers they are supposed to be the same performance. Feedback form other drivers is they reduce brake drag but can have a slightly different pedal feel. They were developed due to the pending shortage in serviceable Renault calipers.

You can run the Konis but the Penske are a superior damper and can be adjusted for rebound on the car without disassembly.

Note the Gen2 is a regional only class and so the rules will depend on your Region's supplemental regulations.


Hi James, and thank you for taking the time to reply and helping me to understand. I do realize that Gen 2 is regional only but $14K plus the non-included ancillary parts parts is too much for me to swallow at this point.

Thanks again,
Ray R
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:56 pm
If your car's been "asleep" for 15 years, I'd suggest that you focus on the "mandatory" upgrades and forego the rest. Koni's in good shape will work just fine. You'll probably want to rebuild the brake system anyway, together with fresh rotors and pads (including rebuildin master cylinders and calipers).

There's no significant advantage to replacing the upper control arms with the tubular ones, unless yours are in bad shape. Start with the minimal investment to make the car safe and reliable. Beyond the brakes you'd likely need a new helmet, fresh seat belts (6-pt 2" seem to be the thing these days), and a HANS.
Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:13 pm
One addition to my list: Fuel cell. Chances are after sitting for 15 years it's not going to be in great shape. Worth changing up front while you're doing the rest of work on the car. At this point, upgrading to the in-tank fuel pump would be an option to consider...
Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:10 pm
breton wrote:If your car's been "asleep" for 15 years, I'd suggest that you focus on the "mandatory" upgrades and forego the rest. Koni's in good shape will work just fine. You'll probably want to rebuild the brake system anyway, together with fresh rotors and pads (including rebuildin master cylinders and calipers).

There's no significant advantage to replacing the upper control arms with the tubular ones, unless yours are in bad shape. Start with the minimal investment to make the car safe and reliable. Beyond the brakes you'd likely need a new helmet, fresh seat belts (6-pt 2" seem to be the thing these days), and a HANS.


Hi, and thank you for your reply. That is exactly my plan, that was why I asked about the Wilwood brakes and Penske shocks--the Konis aren't even mentioned in the GCR as far as I can tell. My hope was that I could get away with just turning my old rotors, that was what prompted my question in the first place.

And of course belts and helmets expire.

Thanks again.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:02 pm
There's an "implicit" mention in the Spec Racer Ford 2 - GCR 9.1.8 section I - Shock Absorbers and Springs, as it still describes splitting the bump stop to allow for easier shock adjustment (only an issue with Koni's) and refers to requiring the same brand of shock absorber at each position (inferring that there must be more one brand and only Koni's have every been legal before the Penske's). In any event, I doubt any Regional class of SFR 2's are going to have to worry about this

Just reminded me that I have to remove my old, or buy the new, Penske bump stops - guess the old bump stops must have been too fast to remain legal (eye-roll, please!)
Bob Breton - SRF 51 - San Francisco Region

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:00 pm
Hard to predict--I remember back in maybe 1984 before the Tilton brake adjuster knob/cable were made legal a friend of mine installed one in his car to facilitate tuning the brake bias. He disconnected it for the race that determined the regional championship. He "won" the race and the championship. However, the second place finisher protested the very presence of knob/cable. The protest was upheld and the race and championship wins went to the guy who protested him. My friend said "F-it" and sold his car. If ya can't win on the track...

And to the meat of your post, I did see that. I also noticed that in the brake section it said without any possibility of misinterpretation that Hawk brake pads MUST be used. However, WRT the vented rotors it says that they SHALL be used WITHOUT ANY MACHINING. So does that mean that only the vented rotors can be used, or does it mean that if the vented rotors are used that they must be used without machining, or does it mean that I'm playing specsmanship games? I'm sure we all know the answer to at least one of those questions. lol

Personally, I'm finding that the original Renault rotors are actually still available for under $20 each so this clearly is not a "supply" problem. And if there is no performance advantage for the new rotors then why mandate them?

Same question with the Penskes. I know that the rebound curves are markedly different between Konis and Penskes but the Konis were still mentioned by name in the April GCR. The reference to the Konis was eliminated in the May version. Maybe everyone except I have converted to Penske?

Finally, please understand that I'm not bringing this stuff up to be a jerk, I'm bringing this stuff up because I'm now retired and on a fixed income. I can afford to race the car that I bought new in 1985 (because it was much more economical than the BS car that I was originally racing). However, $2000 for shocks that I already have and which have been legal for 35 years, and $660 for $80 rotors that I already have (plus spares), and $1600 for calipers (if it comes to that, which i expect that it will) that I already have (plus spares) could mean the difference in racing it or selling it.

Thanks for reading this far.
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