Playing "devil's advocate" (as one who promoted the gear change), there is no "ideal" gear ratio. As Mike D. noted from Laguna, you gain in some, you lose in others. It's less of a difference than the gearing and RPM ranges between the Renault and the Ford. With the Renault, most of Laguna was run in 3rd gear, with the slow corners in 2nd, while the Fords use 2-3-4 (anyone remember bungee cording the Renault shift lever so that it would hold in 3rd gear when the transmission was ready to go? )

What was funny was the first time after running the 25 with the Gen 3 and stepping back into the Gen 2 how I had adapted to the new gearing (and kept getting ready to downshift when I didn't need to) and how I missed that sudden burst of acceleration from 5k on up while the Ford just chugged up to the red-line.

Rather than insisting on a package that perfectly replicates the Gen 2, I say "embrace change" and let's see where it takes us. You'll definitely feel like you got your money's worth the first time you hit the rev limiter and feel the difference in weight on handling (please don't mess that up!!!) It will feel more like a new car than simply upping HP on the current configuration.

Hope everyone understands I did not want to reopen this can of worms, because the decision has been made, BUT, my confusion is why we are building test/CSR cars with the 385 rather than testing them with the current 362 trannys. It doesn't seem we are going to learn anything from this other than we might wish we had switched to the new gearing earlier than later based on what we will see in the Gen 3 this season from all this testing? Just asking...

It’s a dynamic subject, Financial concerns, Class participation, Track performance, Replacement part availability, in some cases the ripple effect, etc…

Try to keep an open mind…think of a full circle, many details, some not in our control. We do need data and sample size…testing with one or two will just get us the 1.9 kit. Some R&D teams are going to run the 3.85 to reassure we make the best choice for the future.

From my point of view, testing undercover or behind closed doors is just not possible. Some of 2014 is testing for 2015 when there will be new rules and standards.

“The answers are coming, rest for now” Morpheus

I definitely need to do the trans rebuild before my GEN3 conversion that starts next February. I'm not exactly delighted to learn that we might be better off long term with the 3.85 ring and pinion. But it is what is.

So I'm in favor of going over to the new R&P for GEN3.

In the least words, I meant to say:
There are many things to consider, we are testing, gathering feedback and collecting data while there are no GEN3 trans rules.

I will say first that am not a fan of having to spend more money on top of the SRG3 engine swap. But after listening to, and reading posts by others that are WAY smarter than me regarding our current transmission, it sounds like the new 3.85 ratio will be better in the long run for the class overall and so I feel that the 3.85 should be MANDATORY for the new SRG3...

The main reason I believe this is the way to go is because of a post from earlier this year from our SRF transmission guru Dave Skinner:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1241&hilit=skinner&start=60

If that link doesn't work, here it is:

"At the risk of roiling the waters again, I'll jump in here with some info on transmissions I've seen and repaired over the years.

Most of you know me and I'm not going to pretend that this discussion has no bearing on my business, but what I will say is that if I don't have to do a lot of transmission work, that'll just allow me to spend more time going to tracks with my SRF customers.

I get transmissions all the time for rebuild and I also put together the ones for Enterprises when they sell a new car kit so I've seen a few transmissions that have worn out and I've also had to source parts for kit transmissions where no core existed.

Normally, a trans with a 3-digit serial number comes in from a racer and it needs to be rebuilt because something has broken in it, generally 3rd or 4th gear. If the racer was good about stopping as soon as the gearset breaks, I usually only have to replace the 3,4,5 gearsets and the syncro hubs, forks and bearings. If the racer has decided to continue driving the car for even 2 or 3 more laps, however, that can usually be counted on to take out teeth on the ring and/or pinion.

The ring and pinion in this transmission are pretty robust, and I've put a few boxes back together with little pieces missing from either the ring or the pinion or both with no problems, whatsoever. But I can't in good concience put a 'box back out there with 2/3s of a tooth missing, so now I've got to source a replacement ring and/or pinion.

Did I mention Mazda no longer makes this ratio ring and pinion?

The other thing I see with these gearboxes is that quite frequently, one will come in with the CV joint/differential register galled out from metal transfer between the inboard CV joint stub and the differential. This allows the CV joint to wobble around excessively, which I'm sure cuts down on the power transmitted from the engine to the axles. Most racers refuse to run a transmission like that. Needless to say, that diff is now history.

Did I mention Mazda no longer makes this ratio ring and pinion?

I can usually source a junkyard ring and pinion, and that's what I do for car kits, but every diff I've gotten from a junkyard needs the side and spider gears replaced because no one EVER replaced the trans fluid in a stock Escort in its life, so the case hardening on those gears has been destroyed. Now you have an additional $500 or so to add to your rebuild.

I think (I'll have to check) the new ratio (did I mention Mazda makes this one?) R/P comes "loaded", meaning it has new side and spider gears already installed, for the same kind of money as a junkyard old ratio.

My vote is with the new ratio ring and pinion, purely from an availability and $$ standpoint. That doesn't even take into account the fact that if you run the 3.85 with the 1.6L, you will now be able to use 3rd, 4th AND 5th pretty much like the current setup.

So that's my $.02 let the flamin' begin!" -Dave Skinner


With that being said, I would like to have the OPTION of what ratio I run with the 1.9 until I either blow up my current motor, or blow up the 3.62, or have to pull the motor when I eventually go to the G3 "Power Unit" (G3PU... ha...)
I know there will be advantages and disadvantages of competing with both ratios. I doubt anyone would change ratios from track to track and if they do, all the power to them. If the new ratio is faster, then the transition to them will be as well.
Give those of us that have a good 3.62 transmissions the OPTION to run them until we need or want to make the change, and make the 3.85 MANDATORY for the SRG3.

I haven't weighed in yet but I will now on one subject:
I feel very strongly that SRF needs a required R&P (therefore 3.62) and SR3 needs a required R&P (either).
Whatever we do, we do *not* want an option within a class.

Make a decision for each class and make it mandatory. I can only imagine the effect that having two tranny options would have in accelerating the sunsetting of the SRF class.

Just my .02
Denny

3.85 mandatory for Majors 1/1/15
3.85 and 3.62 allowed in regionals until 1/1/18 then 3.85 only

Or something along those lines may make good sense?
It would also lighten the initial demand for the 3.85 for Mazda.

Mike D. - I like the testing of both ratios idea - that's always a good plan - if enough of the current 362 trannies are being tested too, but from what I am hearing from people that have tested the Gen 3 more than less, have all favored the 385. All of the Gen 3 conversions will require us to pull our current trannies and many of us will need to or favor rebuilds on them - I just don't want to rebuild my tranny then find out a year later we need to change over to the 385 ratio. I also think that the majority of us would like the gearing to closer mimic what we have been used to in the 1.9. Again, it sounds like many of the tracks would never need or get to 5th gear with the 362.

We need more guys to chime in - that is what this forum is for - I believe good people listen to what we are saying. And thanks Rob for reminding everyone what Dave Skinner wrote about the last time this subject was brought up. He had many valid points.

Stay Calm and ... whatever

As Dave suggested, I think the 3.85 for Majors and 3.62 or 3.85 for regionals would be a good way to go. I do my conversion in October and I will definitely do a tranny rebuild. I only want to pull the tranny once in the next couple of years. (I am looking to amortize the investment in the new motor by not having to pull it as often.)

DaveP