adam g wrote:Regarding the AEM ECU, will it run ODBII or CAN/RS232 protocol? I just ordered a Solo DL to run with my SmartyCam. I guessed and picked the ODBII version assuming that I could also use it in a production car.

Adam,

Since the smartycam now logs data (in addition to video overlay) and already offers the option of both OBDII or CAN connectors, you might want to consider buying the non-DL Solo. Unfortunately, AIM has not been very transparent about if/how they support data logging for the OBD/CAN interface for the smartycam. I can only tell you that the data logging works for the normal, GPS-driven data, and it exactly matches what I get off the AIM Solo. Perhaps someone with a real ECU that has OBD/CAN interface and has used the smartycam can provide feedback.

Just my 2 cents.

Rich Kenny
#33, San Francisco Region

RenoRich wrote:

adam g wrote:Regarding the AEM ECU, will it run ODBII or CAN/RS232 protocol? I just ordered a Solo DL to run with my SmartyCam. I guessed and picked the ODBII version assuming that I could also use it in a production car.

Adam,

Since the smartycam now logs data (in addition to video overlay) and already offers the option of both OBDII or CAN connectors, you might want to consider buying the non-DL Solo. Unfortunately, AIM has not been very transparent about if/how they support data logging for the OBD/CAN interface for the smartycam. I can only tell you that the data logging works for the normal, GPS-driven data, and it exactly matches what I get off the AIM Solo. Perhaps someone with a real ECU that has OBD/CAN interface and has used the smartycam can provide feedback.

Just my 2 cents.

Rich Kenny
#33, San Francisco Region

I would be shocked if the AEM has anything to do with OBDII. Every racing ECU out there that I have dealt with has a CAN bus and AIM should have no problem with reading info from it. AEM won't be reinventing the wheel when they set this ECU up, especially with the price point at 2K. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I'd bet a good chunk of money.

cooleyjb wrote:

RenoRich wrote:

adam g wrote:Regarding the AEM ECU, will it run ODBII or CAN/RS232 protocol? I just ordered a Solo DL to run with my SmartyCam. I guessed and picked the ODBII version assuming that I could also use it in a production car.

Adam,

Since the smartycam now logs data (in addition to video overlay) and already offers the option of both OBDII or CAN connectors, you might want to consider buying the non-DL Solo. Unfortunately, AIM has not been very transparent about if/how they support data logging for the OBD/CAN interface for the smartycam. I can only tell you that the data logging works for the normal, GPS-driven data, and it exactly matches what I get off the AIM Solo. Perhaps someone with a real ECU that has OBD/CAN interface and has used the smartycam can provide feedback.

Just my 2 cents.

Rich Kenny
#33, San Francisco Region

I would be shocked if the AEM has anything to do with OBDII. Every racing ECU out there that I have dealt with has a CAN bus and AIM should have no problem with reading info from it. AEM won't be reinventing the wheel when they set this ECU up, especially with the price point at 2K. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I'd bet a good chunk of money.

I think someone "in the know" said earlier that the new ECU will use the CAN bus interface.

The drawback of the Smartycam is no real-time display of lap times and predictive lap times.

I believe the Smartycam requires an external interface module that is specific for either OBD-II or CAN for $250. Or you can always hook it up to another AIM logger (Solo DL? ) and get the ECU data through that.

Aim tends to issue frequent software and firmware updates to support new variations of ECUs. Racing ECUs may have to be programmed to use the right data format and / or U/M.

Dave

AEM data output is an issue (EMS4 model is ours). They are not planning to adopt more universal options like Bosch etc. They are working hard to get our business (have had a loaner car from MBI for 4 months - thanks Mark!), but in terms of firmware / outputs that we are used to in road racing there will be some work. We really cannot finish testing unless we can get customers data systems to help us generate data. I know Mike is sure that with his excellent relationship with CDS we can get it figured out for them, AIM has some campatibility already. But I am not an expert in this area at all. Mike is, and knows we have to do our best to not obsolete anyones data systems and to allow you the maximim monitoring we can supply. Joel / GSR00 called and "I called AEM and talked to their tech,, the model Solo DL is the one with the CAN/RS232 option"...from this I summize that we have a CAN/RS232 output?

BFun wrote:

LeeHill wrote:Bruce - at 180hp, better brakes, etc it sounds an awful like an S2000.

At any rate, "Cubic Dollars" to operate will end up going way up - and (personal opinion) I'm an old fart that just doesn't want to go that fast.

Remember energy to dissipate in a crash has an exponential relation to velocity and I really don't want to be the test dummy.

Well that's an old price (and so maybe not a very fair comparison to the upcoming re-engined SR?), and Steve may no longer even be interested in doing anymore now that he has his G2 out. But a SRF is much heavier and more rugged than a S2, and the new hubs and brakes are more available & stronger & probably cheaper than our obsolete Renault bits. So based on that I would not expect any big reliability, safety, or cost issues.

My 20 something nephew came out to Barber. And he was really enthusiastic about the SRF until he found out the cost and power. That's when he started talking ITA or Spec Miata. At some point were going to start running out of old farts, just like we are running out of obsolete Ford & Renault parts.

Cost? Sure you can run "A" miata for cheaper than a SRF but can you run "A competitive" miata for less than a SRF? The answer is no, and quite frankly the numbers I have heard for a top miata are just plain scary. Miata car counts are still huge in many parts of the country and the racing is good in all sections of the field, just like SRF. However, in miata are you in the top of the field because you are a better driver and racer than the others? Maybe? Or it might be because you spent double what the mid pack driver did. Some people may be okay with that but the whole idea of a SPEC class is to not OUTSPEND the others to go faster. Thats what GT-1 is for.

Power? Who cares about the power number what about lap time and cornering speed? A stock car has 850+ horsepower but an Indy Car has 200-250 less, which do you think gets around the track better? As a relatively younger driver in my opinion this update is what SRF needs. The leadership and people working on this project are the best the class has ever had and SR/SRF has been around for a LONG time. Many other people have tried the SR formula (Shelby Can am, Panoz, etc.) and all that has been is a fad. Other than the minor issue of having 2 classes for a little while (happened before) and the actual cost, I struggle to see the negatives in this process. Your product (SRF) will be better!

Oh and cost of rubber? The hoosier SM6 is in the ball park of high $170s. Add in the $20+ to mount and balance from your favorite tire service provider and you are damn near the $200 we pay. I see some Miata guys go through 2 sets of Hoosiers per weekend (not that some SRF guys don't, but you don't need to).

-Mike Miserendino

RenoRich wrote:Bruce,

Curious about you nephew's reaction. While SM power is better, lap times are about the same or slower here on the left coast due to weight. Also, it seems SM cost is higher due to blueprinted engines and higher cost of body repairs. About the only thing that's cheaper is the cost of rubber. How is it that your nephew reads it the other way? I agree that it's a big deal because we definitely need to build more entry level participation.

Speaking as a fellow old fart, of course,

Rich Kenny
#33, San Francisco Region

His perception (and perception can sometime be more important than facts when it comes to attracting people) is that a Miata yeilds similar lap times for a lower cost. Plus he is a mechanic, so he is considing converting a street car (which lowers the up front cost) and the fact that he could jump to one of the other dozen Miata classes if he ever wanted to play with car development or get more speed. He also made fun of me for getting outrun by the faster Miata's in their "girly cars" in my dedicated race car (I was toward the back of the SRF pack). So avoiding that embarrassment may have been a factor in his thinking too.

BFun wrote:

RenoRich wrote:Bruce,

Curious about you nephew's reaction. While SM power is better, lap times are about the same or slower here on the left coast due to weight. Also, it seems SM cost is higher due to blueprinted engines and higher cost of body repairs. About the only thing that's cheaper is the cost of rubber. How is it that your nephew reads it the other way? I agree that it's a big deal because we definitely need to build more entry level participation.

Speaking as a fellow old fart, of course,

Rich Kenny
#33, San Francisco Region

His perception (and perception can sometime be more important than facts when it comes to attracting people) is that a Miata yeilds similar lap times for a lower cost. Plus he is a mechanic, so he is considing converting a street car (which lowers the up front cost) and the fact that he could jump to one of the other dozen Miata classes if he ever wanted to play with car development or get more speed. He also made fun of me for getting outrun by the faster Miata's in their "girly cars" in my dedicated race car (I was toward the back of the SRF pack). So avoiding that embarrassment may have been a factor in his thinking too.

To really understand costs, you need to look at acquisition cost, maintenance cost, operating cost, repair cost and resale value. The only number where SM beats SRF is in acquisition cost -- and unfortunately that is the first cost that new racers encounter. So they jump. Then they face the rest of the costs -- the biggest variances being the inevitable upgrades in SM, and enormous cost of crash repair.

As to the image, I can see where the new engine, with modern electronics and sound, will bring new hotshots into the field. Guys like Scott R. who are destined to move on to pro racing will speak well of the SRF.

I think you guys just need to find twistier tracks -- without writing an entire book, I acquired 2 SRF's recently and took them to my local club track. It's a 1.7-mile with some decent straights of 3/8's to 1/2 mile with a lot of elevation change, and a couple technical corners. I have an extremely close relationship with the track owners and management, but haven't been on the track or driven competitively in probably a year... never an SRF. After a few lap I was pacing with turbo Miata's and the track-ready Honda S2000's (CR I think is the special line?). By the afternoon the regular "club guys" were pitting to avoid getting shown up by the vintage sports racer.

And as a reference point I think the best time I've ever recorded there in a SpecRX7 is a 1:42; fastest SRF time (in my second session, on a greasy and dirty track) was a 1:30.8 -- Formula BMW's and other outright racecars are just barely in the high-teens, "Spec" Miata's are maybe 1:29 or so. Oh, and that's on tires I got out of the free pile at the Goodyear trailer earlier this year.

With all that said, while my only dog in this hunt is that I just got a great gift of two rental-SRFs, I know that the change will be handled well and hope that I can avoid any motor rebuilds until the rollout of the new powerplant! I think if one of these motors grenades before then I'll just find one in a junkyard and retire that chassis to trackdays only until I can afford the swap.

Erik Skirmants wrote:AEM data output is an issue (EMS4 model is ours). They are not planning to adopt more universal options like Bosch etc. They are working hard to get our business (have had a loaner car from MBI for 4 months - thanks Mark!), but in terms of firmware / outputs that we are used to in road racing there will be some work. We really cannot finish testing unless we can get customers data systems to help us generate data. I know Mike is sure that with his excellent relationship with CDS we can get it figured out for them, AIM has some campatibility already. But I am not an expert in this area at all. Mike is, and knows we have to do our best to not obsolete anyones data systems and to allow you the maximim monitoring we can supply. Joel / GSR00 called and "I called AEM and talked to their tech,, the model Solo DL is the one with the CAN/RS232 option"...from this I summize that we have a CAN/RS232 output?

I can work on the AIM end if needed. I have a whole bunch of their stuff sitting on the shelf here and can do testing on that front.

Erik Skirmants wrote:AEM data output is an issue (EMS4 model is ours).... I know Mike is sure that with his excellent relationship with CDS we can get it figured out for them...

Correct. As soon as the spec for the ecu and its CAN data stream is finalized we will do the interface to our products.