Hello ladies and gents. Just registered for the first time after several years of lurking around this site just to say my piece.

I am an excellent candidate for SRF and what brought me back to this site today was to begin the search for one. By way of background, I have a long and varied amateur motorsports history that includes open wheel instruction at Bertil Roos and, in a completely different vein, completing a Cobra replica build. For the latter, I built my own 351W up from a bare block. So although I'm not a pro, I do have the sensibility for the sport, did extremely well at Bertil Roos, and have already investigated the steps to get my license.

Having read a good number of the current posts, I have to say I have soured on the idea of buying an SRF. The prospect of over $10k in upgrades over the next couple years is very uninviting. And although I have no idea who it is, the role/responsibililty of whoever allowed the SCCA to run completely out of spare ECUs for the current motor should be examined closely.

The whole point of a specification racecar is to keep costs down and guys like me in the game. With the near-horizon changes coming for SRFs, I see current-spec cars being worth maybe $11k or $12k. That's nowhere near the prices at which they are being offered, as we can all see.

I'll be pondering this for a while, and while I am not going to say that I am open to persuasion, I do hope that you folks can take these comments in the way they were intended -- constructive criticism. No reasonable person is going to buy into this game right now, because it is going to be just too expensive over the next few years. Better to wait. Which means that anyone with skin in the game has seen the equity value in their car take a hit because of these developments.

Just a bad situation all around right now with SRF.

Hope I'm wrong.

Best regards,

AJ

I would suggest you start looking for or offering your price range and see what happens.

AJ,
Thanks for the input. While none of us particularly like shelling out more money for our hobby, the new engine/ecu combo should be a postive step up for the class. The improvements in power, balance, and reliability should help keep the class relevant and popular over time. We also dont have to make the swap until 2018. Depending on the number of races I am able to run over the next 5 years, I'd probably be looking at a motor overhaul anyway. IIRC, a motor rebuild is about $3,500 - $4.500, so the incremental cost isn't the deal breaker that it looks like at first glance.

SRF remains one of the most, if not the most, cost effective classes. No other class, not even Spec Miata, can offer the combination of low up front cost, low operating cost, ease of maintenance and repair, and large and competitive fields. As a means of comparison, the costs of running a competitive Spec Miata are discussed here: http://www.specmiataracers.com/

Your comment that its "Just a bad situation all around right now with SRF" doesn't correlate with the car counts. At last count, SRF was the largest class at the run-offs. I'd highly recommend that you come out to a race before passing any judgement on the health of the group.
As far as what is an SRF worth, the market will clearly set that price over time.

AJ,

Thanks for thoughtful comments.

I got into this class about 6 years ago, so as you point out, I've "taken the hit" on the equity of my car. However, when I got into the class I already knew that we were working with old technology and that sometime in the not so distant future we'd be looking at a transition. I figure all of this is factored into the final price that people are willing to pay to buy a new car. That's why I paid 18K for used car 5 years ago and why that price has dropped by another 2-3K today. Yes, I wouldn't buy new from Enterprises at this time (sorry Erik), it just doesn't make good financial sense.

I also suggest you be realistic about the operating cost vs. the purchase price. Gas, tires, entry fees, practice fees, repair efficiency (cost and time to repair) are big factors. I think that SRF beats every other class when you combine all of these things. Spec Miata is the only class that's close, but take a look at how long it takes to get a car back on track after an "on track incident". SM's are made of metal, we're made of fiberglass. We're made to collapse, protect the driver and sacrifice those easily replaced parts. I've had a nose-to-nose collision and been back on track within 4 hours. (radiator, shroud, and frankenstein repairs to the nosepiece). Can a SM driver say the same? I don't think so. And most importantly, we're actually spec, so it's driver-to-driver and not wallet-to-wallet competition.

Think about it.

Rich Kenny
#33, San Francisco Region

AJ,

Now that Rich has retired his ledger books he has certainly become quite eloquent, but fortunately he has not forgotten basic accounting. And racing accounting is not part of the real world, so you should read what he said carefully. I race chassis 76, built in 1984 - Ford heart transplant in '94 - and am looking forward to its next iteration in two years, but I'll still be installing a rebuilt 1.9 in the interim until that roll-out. That's 28 years (on a race car?!!!) and still counting; that's a lot of log books.

AJ, even an amateur racing program is different than any peripheral motorsports activity, you need to be realistic about what is about to happen to you (and your savings) if you go to the dark side, or, as SRF resident sage Harriman would put it, "sure AJ, it seems like a lot of money now, but pretty soon you won't care". Bottom line is the cost of the car isn't particularly relevant to what you'll be spending to race season after season. Focus on sustainability, durability, repair-ability, rules stability, and lastly, on the quality of the competition and who you be sharing a race track with.

tony

Spec Miata left "Spec" behind a long time ago when they went to $6000 engines. Now I am hearing up to $20K for a competive engine. They need a name change to reflect what they really are. I don't look forward to the cost of the engine change, but like Tony I also have a 28 year old car (#66) that with a better driver would be just as competive as an 850 + serial numbered one. I know of a car that ran near the pointy end of field that just went for $16K with lots of extras. Even if you are not directly associated with a CSR, your competitors are always there to help get you back into the race. Somebody will have the part, or tool to make it happen as well as an extra pair of hands. Re-think your position. If you are into this for a long time there is no better option. Enterprises is the one responsible for our parts, and they put a lot of thought into what they use and why. As far as ECU's there are some issues with inconsistency among them and subsequent performance and this is supposed to eliminate that issue. Also since it is a 1995 part, availability of it and engines is a big issue. Additionally, it is what will be used with the new engine, hence for those of us converting to the new engine the cost of such is spread out over 2-5 years. I can't speak for other's but I already have my engine fund going.
Bob

The below quote is of immeasurable importance. We only get a handful of racing weekends per year, and it's so easy to lose a weekend due to a mechanical failure. Short of engine failure, it is hard to imagine losing a weekend in SRF. And if there's a CSR around, you can probably rent a ride that --while not your baby-- will be a familiar and competitive car.

I think there's a "car guy" element to racing and the production-based cars are more appealing to "car guy" racers who like to modify and upgrade and tune. SRF is more about the racing and less about the car.

SRF49 wrote:Even if you are not directly associated with a CSR, your competitors are always there to help get you back into the race. Somebody will have the part, or tool to make it happen as well as an extra pair of hands.

Some CSR's even carry spare engines. I am willing to bet a competitor might have one in has trailer that he might be willing to sell at a reasonable price now. And I have seen competitors offer their spare cars.

AJ, everyone has provided you with sound and factual information above. One thing that also needs to be pointed out: there are no race cars that hold their value like SRFs. So if you buy a 16K car now, even with the new engine, etc., you race it for a few years and don't change the engine, and it will be worth $8K? So depreciation is $8K - not much for race cars. Most are worth pennies after a few years of use.
Depreciation isn't the big cost in racing anyway, it is everything else. but per Mr. Harriman: you won't care!

Taint nuthin new under the sun. Also known as "been there - done that".

I bought an SR (renault) in 1994 - ran it for a year and a half, upgraded it to a Ford and ran it for several more years before buying a new car in 1999 and selling the original. That 1999 car is going to be starting a 5th logbook in the very near future.

Based on my experience with that mid-1990s transition (and the team managing things at Enterprises in 1995 was nothing like as capable as today's crew) I would expect that there will be some confusion, some frustration, and some unexpected consequences (and some unexpected expenses). However, since the only alternative is to become a "junkyard sourced" class, I'm glad to see it happening.

Because of all of the uncertainies inherent in this kind of change, there will be quite a few opportunities to pick up SRFs relatively cheaply from people who are unwilling/afraid/whatever to go through the conversion process.

And at the end of the day, I expect us to have at least as good a car as we have today (I bet we'll be able to get the motor out quicker) - and a stronger class for having moved from 1990 technology to something that belongs in the current century.